New to Hiking (kind-of)

Hey all. I'm here at the recommendation of Lew - we work together.

I've decided to pick up hiking as a hobby and wanted to come here for advice before I rush out and start buying stuff...even as tempting as it is given how nice the weather has been lately.

A little background:
I grew up in the woods of Arkansas and I'm a former US Army Infantry Officer, so I've spent quite a bit of time in the woods. In the Army all the "hiking" was with at least 40 lbs and a rifle, and to be honest, wasn't much fun. I have always had a good time being in the woods, learning the terrain, and navigation / orienteering which I've been pretty good at (with military maps/compasses / MGRS at least).

My intent is to travel light but probably not "ultra-light". The lighter the better, but $ is a consideration. If I can keep my load under 25 lbs I think I'll be happy (under 20 lbs would be better, and 15 and under would be a dream but would probably get cost-prohibitive).

My plan is to hike with my wife (so I'll be buying 2 sets of gear in most cases). We'll probably mostly hike one day, camp that night, finish the next day. We're about 30 years old and not in the best shape, but not in terrible shape either.

So my question is, can the group help point us in the right direction in terms of equipment to purchase?

One tent I'm looking at that I think balances weight and price is the Kealty Teaton 2. It weighs in around 4 lbs 10 oz. Under most circumstances we'd each carry part of the tent. Any thoughts about it?

Any good options for sleeping bags and packs? I think I want an 800 fill down bag, but not sure.

Thanks for the help! Lew tells me what a great group this is!

Nathan

Nate:
Welcome to the group. Glad to have you.
I tend to go toward the ultralight end of things, so some of what I recommend may be too light for you. Lew can also help in the lightweight gear department.
15-20 lbs is quite do-able and doesn't have to cost a fortune. Here's a link to a post that we had on the board some time ago about doing ultralight on the cheap:

http://www.arkansasbackcountry.com/ultralight-general-discussion-f11/ultralight-doesn-t-have-to-be-expensive-t222.htm

There are several other posts on the Ultralight section of the board that may be of help.
If I can be of further help, please let me know.
Welcome to the board,
UL

Nate,

http://www.tarptent.com/ Shelter!

http://www.ula-equipment.com backpack. I have the Catalyst. UL has the Conduit.

http://www.montbell.us/products/list.php?cat_id=28 Sleeping bag.

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___47735 Sleeping Pad

These links take care of the three heavies including the sleeping pad. I use the Caldera Cone Stove at Anti Gravity Gear. With the MSR Kettle pot. My links are a lot more expensive that the list UL posted I hope between the two of these this helps you get started. The tent you mentioned I don't know much about but I do think it would be to heavy for me.

Lew

Nate:
Before buying any gear, once you have picked out what you want, go to eBay and look there. You can sometimes find brand new gear for a lot less than the same thing on sale elsewhere. Try Craigslist too, although I've never been to that site.
UL

Just so I can enlighten you, there are also hammocks that you can sleep in, with a tarp over you. 2 people can sleep under one tarp very easily, and if it rains, the water runs right under you, instead on in your tent. They weigh about 2 pounds for tarp and hammock, so 3 pounds for you and your wife. If you want to go even lighter, leave the hammocks and just use the tarp, and sleep on the ground.

Welcome to the site, and if I can help you let me know, my wife also makes gear as well, so if you sweet talk her, she may make you some quilts.

Dwight

Hi Nate. Welcome to the site!

When it comes to weight issues, the first item of dead weight you need to shed is your co-worker Lew. Just trust me on that one.

The thing to keep in mind, whatever you decide to do, is to take your time and find the best gear for you. There are tons of products out there and each has lots of features; it's easy to snatch up the first thing you see when you would be better served to check everywhere, everything, and everyone. Find out what works for others. (I use a JetBoil for my cooking needs because it works everywhere (even in heavy wind), it involves zero clean up and it's lightning FAST. I don't like to mess around at the end of a long day--when it's time for dinner, I want to eat! The down-side is that it's heavier than some other cooking systems.

That's one thing that works for me. Ask another one of the fellas here what works for them and they'll tell you something different. My point is, by taking your time and researching everything, you'll do yourself a favor and (unlike many of us) keep from going through all kinds of money and time buying and re-buying equipment.

I'm sure you know this stuff, but, really, I know how tough it is when you're ready to get out there and you just want to go the store, buy everything and be done with it. Trust me: Take your time.

Whatever outfitter you have near you should become your best friend. I live close to Hot Springs, so Ouachita Outdoor Outfitters is mine. They have everything I need and they know what they're talking about. Go, handle, touch, lie in, strap on, pack, set-up, sample; try everything out at the store. Test it all. Ask questions.

I don't know anything about the Kelti Teaton 2, but I would definately try to see a real-live tent because sometimes 2 person tents are a little tight for 2 people. (I use a Mountain Hardwear Viperine 2 as a single tent because I like the extra room, but really there's not enough room for two people to be comfortable.) Ignore the published measurements and LOOK AT ONE IN REAL LIFE. Trust me on this one.

Okay, enough rambling. Welcome to the Backcountry Nate.

Guys,

Thanks for the warm welcome! The advice has already been helpful.

One thing I've come to the conclusion on is that there are a lot of decisions to be made! In reality, I'll probably run a couple of different packing configurations based on the season and who else goes with me.

The ultra-cheap UL list probably won't fit my style, but was helpful because it reminded me of so many principles I learned (and then forgot apparently) in the Infantry. A poncho, some stakes, some bungee cords, and some 550 cord go a LONG way. Not only do you have rain gear, but tie the hood off, stake it down, run some bungee's, and you've got a tent and rain gear (along with all the other uses of bungee's and cord). I may buy a poncho and run with that configuration.

On the other hand, a closed-in tent, while heavier, has advantages when there are bugs out and my wife is on the trail with me.

Things like a stove, I don't see myself using. I'll likely either use an MRE heater or eat cold food during the day and a camp fire at night. Another excellent option seems to be the alcohol stoves. Pretty much a measuring cup and some PGA could do the trick, and those things both have a multitude of uses.

From Lew's list, I've put together the following list for your review:


Tent - Kelty Grand Mesa 2 - $99 (Academy) 4 lb 10 oz (74 oz) a better tent - door at the head of tent

Pack - Osprey Aether 60 - $210 (Ozark Outdoors) 3 lb 15 oz (63 oz)

Sleeping Pad - Thermarest 4 Season Regular – $84.97 (Campmor) – 1 lb 8 oz (24 oz)

Sleeping Bag Mont-bell U.L. SS Down Hugger 15 degree F - $379 (motbell.us) 2 lb 4 oz (36 oz)

Water Pump - MRS Miniworks EX - $84.95 (Campmor) – 16.3 oz[/size]

Water Bottle – Kleen Kanteen 40 oz - $25.45 (Campmor) – 11 oz[/size]

Cup – Olicamp Space Saver Cup - $5.99 – 4.7 oz (Campmor)[/size]

Bottle – Nalgene Every Day BPA Free Bottle - $8.99 – 6.4 oz (Academy)


LR Sales Tax – 7.5%


Total $: $922.20 (gulp)

Total weight: 235.4 oz = 14.7 lbs


It's not everything, but gets me close. By the time I add water, food, a knife, and clothing, I'm probably up around 25 lbs. Not exactly UL but not a 40 lb ruck sack either.


Seriously, any advice is appreciated - especially on better options and better prices.



Finally, I'd be lying if I didn't address the urgency of getting gear. I will be headed to Devil's Den this week to hike and camp out. That's putting some mental pressure on me to want to jump at some options...the Osprey pack is a good example. I "think" I'd rather have a ULA Catalyst (but have some concerns with how it handles heavier loads), but waiting until December to even get the order in seems like a bridge-too-far. Talk me out of bad options if I've listed them, given that 25 lbs will likely be my load.

In the big scheme of things it's probably not much, but 2 months seems like a long time to wait...especially when we've had as many beautiful days as we have.


Thanks guys! This is fun!

Nathan

Nate:
A couple of things that you could change that will do the same thing and save you some money and weight at the same time are as follows:
Water Filter - Katadyn Hiker - $59.00/11 oz. (Academy)
Water Bottle - Playpus - 2 liter - $10.00/1.5 oz. (Ozark Outdoors)
Bottle - 24 oz. Gatorade bottle - Free (after drinking the Gatorade)/1.5 oz.
Also, check Gander Mtn. in NLR for Thermarest pads. They may have what you want in stock and maybe cheaper.
Check out this link for the Montbell Alpine #1(15 deg. down bag)
Less weight and less cost for as warm of a bag. I've got this same bag and have slept toasty warm at 8 deg.
http://www.campsaver.com/ItemMatrix.asp?GroupCode=mtb0023&MatrixType=1
I know you don't want to wait until December to buy a ULA Catalyst, but if you find yourself in the future looking for a lighter pack, the Catalyst is rated for pack weights up to 45 lbs and weighs around 46 oz.
For an overnight trip, the MRE and heater won't make that big of a difference weight-wise, but MREs are a lot heavier than some of the other foods available. Something to keep in mind should you do any multi-day trips.
As for tents, don't forget to look at Louis and Clark in LR (on University-across from Park Plaza Mall). They carry MSR Hubba tents of various sizes and weights. These are worth looking at.
Hope all of this helps. You've got a good list going, the above might just help lighten the load a bit.
UL

Nate,

If you are going to the Butterfield this week, drop me a line and you can borrow some of my gear. You can try out my big 10'X12' silnylon tarp that weighs 1 pound, and if you want you can try out a hammock too, but they are tricky to learn how to stay warm in and there is a learning curve. I have my 20* Climashield quilt that weighs nothing too, but for the ground may not be wide enough. I live 30min from Devil's Den, and never need an excuse to go there. Drop me a Private Message if there is anything I may have and not mentioned yet, and I will give you a call and we can work things out. Have Fun!

Dwight

Nate,

Backcountry outlet and REI-outlet are both great sites to find closeout gear. Backcountry just had their year end 50% off sale so they are pretty picked over. I have been on hikes with folks that have had alot of problems with the Miniworks filter plugging up. The Hiker pro seems to be a more trouble free filter. It is definately time tested.
Try your pack on before buying. Load it up in the store and wear it around. Any outfitter should let you do that and help you adjust it out. An ill fitting pack is no fun. I would lay the bag out and zip up in it.

HBH

Thanks again for all the help! The suggestions are very helpful!

I'm starting to make some decisions. Here's some things I've settled on:

MSR Miniworks EX - Looked hard at the Hiker Pro, but the MSR seems to be rated for a longer life. I'm part of a CERT team and would feel more comfortable putting it in with my disaster supply kit when not hiking with it.

Kleen Kanteen - Truth be told, I'm a little hesitant about the long-term viability of a filter. Again, with disaster planning in mind, the stainless steel bottle gives me a back-up option for boiling.

Nalgene Bottle with Steel Cup - Multi use, can boil with it, can cook in it - admitedly a luxury item.

Thermarest 4 Season - Need to shop around but seems universal

Some questions:

The Montbell Alpine #1(15 deg. down bag) - I'm a side / stomach sleeper, 5 ft 6 in, about 200 lbs - any concerns with the bag being restrictive? For $60 savings, it may be worth it!

In sleeping bags, I see lots that are 600 fill down and some that are 800 fill - but both rated for the same temp - do I need 800 fill?

Forgot to mention my head lamp. I'm looking hard at the Pinceton Tech EOS Tactical. Seems rated for long battery life and puts out quite a bit of light. The red lens option is nice - I'm a star-gazer and red lens is necessary.

The ULA Catalyst - how rugged is this pack? Any concerns with rips or tears (being so light)?

I've had the chance to shop around. CampSaver.com has a lot of great deals. Any issues with them? What about MoonTrail.com? Madathelete.com ? I'm assuming they are all reputable online stores.

Shopping around really pays off! Between Camp Saver, Academy, Campmor, and Moontrail I've been able to shave nearly $200 off the original price (including tax and shipping). I plan on checking with Gander Mountain today along with Uncle Sams and other stores in Fayetteville.

Nathan

By the way, big thanks to Dwight. I appreciate the offer to loan me gear for this weekend. My plans will likely change to just camping then hiking instead of hiking with gear and camping out in the field.

That's a really generous offer, but I try to shy away from using borrowed stuff. I'll screw it up, set it on fire, or something.

Nate

Nate

The ULA Catalyst is rugged enough for me... It is funny I was a swipe of the debit card away from buying the Aether 60 my self. I just held out for the unknown and am totally happy with my decision this is coming from a guy who owned the a Gregory Palisade. I also bought a Atmos 50 and didn't like it either. I tell you all this to let you know I am not to proud to say I spent the money on a pack and I am not above criticizing my self on my poor purchases. It is truly a trial and error process. As far as the Catalyst I like it and plan to buy my self the Conduit for Christmas. Keep in mind if you get the Catalyst you need to be thinking to be Lighter. You don't have to UL to wear this pack but I wouldn't want to carry 40lbs with it. You can take a look at my pack anytime.

I only have knowledge of the Montbell 40 degree bag and I like it a lot. Good luck! Keep us up to date on all your gear. It will be neat following someone who had zero gear to buying everything you need. It will be a ride.

Lew

Man, this is fun. Just made the first three purchases. 2x Nalgene bottles (one for me, one for my wife), 2 Princeton Tech Eos Tactical headlamps, 1 Kelty Grand Mesa.

I've put a lot of thought into it and think I'm going to go with the Aether 60. It looks like that is a reasonable choice and for $169.99, it's hard to beat the price.

That's the backpack I carry Nate, and I am happy with it.

I like having Nalgenes for car camping and base camping and stuff, but I don't carry them anymore: The Aether 60 has a hydration bladder sleeve - you should totally use it! It puts that big hunk of weight in the perfect place close to your back. And you can get up to 3 liter hydration bladders (I just use a 2 liter). Those nalgenes are pretty heavy even when they're empty. I generally carry a 24 oz gatorade bottle in addition to my hydration bladder, just for easy refills and a little extra water when needed.

Anyway, the gear is part of the fun so I'm glad you're enjoying it!

Nate you are welcome anytime, and if you are afraid of tearing up my gear, you could always invite me along and I could tear it up with you. I am glad that you all are talking packs, because I need a new one after mine was stolen this year. I have been using my old college backback for now, and it works great because it forces me to carry only the neccessities. I have really thought about ULA, and Gossamer Gear. I use to use a Steripen until it was stolen, and have been looking at the hiker pro to replace it. OH well tablets will have to do for now. Let us know how you like your pack, and how well it fits.

Dwight

Excellent! I feel like this group has done an excellent job getting me educated over the past 3 days.

I just purchased 2 packs...

For me Osprey Aether 60
for my wife Osprey Ariel 55.

I'm a little concerned about capacity, especially on my wife's pack, but I think it'll be fine. I feel like I got great deals on both packs. $336.20 for both packs, and they're going to swap out the medium hip pads on mine for large and the small ones on my wife's pack for mediums (don't tell her I told you that though).

If they don't work, I can send them back in 30 days.

All-in-all I feel like you guys are equipping me with information that is allowing me to strike the right balance between cost, weight, and comfort.

One question: The Montbell Alpine Hugger #1(15 deg. down bag) - I'm a side / stomach sleeper - any concerns with the bag being restrictive? They're about $60 cheaper than the same Super Stretch bag.

I would go with the Super Stretch I didn't understand the question at first. My 40 deg bag is the stretch and I can sit up indian style in my bag it is worth it. I am big so any extra room I can get is nice. UL would concur on this he has the stretch bag also (15 deg). He is out of town....

Lew

I have the SuperStretch #1 and I love it.. Can sit up, roll around, hang out.. drive your car.. operate heavy machinery and even do the house chores in it.... well maybe not all that but it sure is close lol.

Took the big plunge today. Ordered the following:

2x 40 oz Kleen Kanteen's
2x Olicamp Space Saver cups
1x Thermarest 4 Season Regular Men's
1x Thermarest 4 Season Regular Women's
1x Strike Force Fire Starter
1x MSR Miniworks EX Water Pump/Filter
and the biggie
2x Montbell U.L. Super Stretch Down Hugger #1 15 degree 800 fill
sleeping bags

Well, Merry Christmas to me and my wife. That's about all we'll be buying for a while. Luckily we had been putting back for a while for this sort of thing.

Sounds like a good list, I know that you will have fun this weekend. It is supposed to get really cold this weekend with the highs in the 20's brrrrr. Make sure that you bundle up, I just got me a pair of performance fleece thermals and they work great. Take your time picking a campsite, and pick one with the best wind break. You will have a great time.

Dwight

Nate:
You will enjoy the Montbell bags. Sorry I couldn't get to my computer to let you know about the Alpine. It has a lot of the same stretch features that the super stretch has. I'm 6' and 235 and I have a lot of room in mine. They are great bags.
UL

Well, the trip to Devil's Den fell through. We simply ran out of time to get out there before daylight. We decided to drive up to Bever Lake around 8:30 PM last night. We ended up driving around until around 10:00 PM going from campsite to campsite learning that they were all closed. I ended up in my army issue Gortex bag inside my buddy's house. Oh well.

When I got back to Maumelle tonight our backpacks had arrived! My wife put my son (25 lbs) in her pack and I put my daughter (37 lbs) in mine and we went for about a mile walk. The packs carry the weight great - just like ruck marching in the army except much more comfortable. The kids had fun too.

The UPS guy came today to bring the tent but we weren't here. It'll be here Monday.

Guys,

Finally got just about everything in. I'm waiting on a compass and a camelbak I've bought off ebay for cheap.

Some questions for the group:

1. There are lots of "footprints" available for tents. I'm assuming they just help preserve the tent floor. I know some people use a piece of visquine plastic from Home Depot or Lowes. Others use a painters drop cloth. Some don't use anything. Should I consider using a footprint? If so, what type? If it's a drop cloth or piece of plastic do you just drive your tent stakes through it?

2. Do any / many of you use a sleeping bag liner? Those Mont-Bell bags are pretty expensive and I'm just curious if it's worth having a liner.

It's all coming together! I think we're going to take our first trip the Friday after Thanksgiving.

Thanks!
Nathan

Nate:
Most footprints are cut to match the layout of the floor of the tent. You can use a plastic drop cloth or a sheet of tyvek (housewrap) and just cut it to the same outline as your tent floor and you shouldn't need to stake it down since it's under the tent.
If you air out your sleeping bag when you get home, that will help keep your bag clean. One of the easiest ways to keep the inside clean is to not get in with dirty clothes. Also, with the super stretch feature of the Montbell bags, putting a liner inside will nulify this benefit and make it feel tight inside.
UL