Ultralight Gear List

I just couldn't stand it any longer. Not seeing a single post in my favorite catagory was just killing me. So I thought I'd start things off with my 3-season 2-day gear list and see what interest, if any, it generates. So here goes:

Backpack - ULA Conduit - 21.5 oz.
Clothes - Wool Socks - 3.5 oz.
Microfleece Top - 14.5 oz.
SilNylon Ponch - 6.5 oz.
Kitchen - Homemade Wood Stove w/Pot - 6.38 oz.
Mini Bic lighter - .37 oz.
Platypus -2-liter bottle - 1.38 oz.
Gatorade 20 fl. oz. bottle - 1.25 oz.
Misc. Items - First Aid Kit - 6.0 oz.
Katadyn Mini Hiker filter - 8.0 oz.
Possibles Bag - 8.5 oz.
Shelter - .7 mil plastic ground cloth - 1.5 oz.
SilNylon 8x10 Tarp - 15.12 oz.
8 MSR Tent Stakes - 5.0 oz.
Tent Cord - 2.38 oz.
Sleeping System - Marmot Atom Mummy Bag - 23.0 oz.
Thermarest Ultralight Pad 3/4 length - 17.62 oz.

Total weight - 143.87 oz./8.99 lbs.

This was my gear list that I carried a couple of weeks ago when I did a 2-day hike on the Butterfield Trail over in Devil's Den.
Let me know what you think. All criticisms and critiques invited.
Jim

Doesn't look to me you did without anything. I was camping down the trail from Jim with Figg (which hasn't posted yet) that weekend. It rained all night. I mean all night long did I say all night. I was sleeping in a 1.89lb Contrail Tarptent that I was using for the first time and was completly dry. Jim was down the trail with his two buddies and we had just met them he had his tarp 8x10 set up in what he called a bomb shelter set up. When you pulled up all the tents he was the only one with a dry spot under the tent or tarp. I was convinced right then that UL backpacking was better. The Contrail tent was the first UL peice of equipment I had purchased. All of those guys we sub 15lbs and were not doing without anything I had (excecpt for the Crazy Creek).I was 30+. I am headed that way. I am going UL from here on out.

It seems like over the years UL hiking has become like almost a sick obsession with some people. I have been touring the backcountry for twenty years in some of the most remote places in the country and where being lightweight is kind on your back and legs, sometimes in some situations it is pushing safety to the limit. I have personally seen in many cases people bragging on the trail of how light their pack was and then meet up with them later in a deluge of rain at the campsite asking me if they can share some of my two man tent space. In most cases having a tarp and ground cloth can work just fine. It is an art form findin the right spot to set up this system on the trail to make sure you are safe from the elements. I give credit to the people who have mastered the art of ground cloth and and tarp camping, but for me I love the piece of mind knowing at the end of the day I can climb into my tent and no matter what the conditions are stay dry and cozy and most importantly insect and critter free. Other gear I agree completely going ultra lite.

That's sick.

I think my big ol Osprey weighs in at 30 or so pounds (including water, but not food) when I pack for a weekend or longer.

But, I can't complain since I carry:

An 1800 sq. ft. 3 bedroom bungalow (with full indoor plumbing)
Pick axe (for prospecting - there's gold in them hills!)
The Yellow Pages (in case I want to order pizza, or chinese.)
A six burner FlameKist grill (with propane tank)
A Toyota Prius
The 1972 Miami Dolphins
A Hammer and Anvil (for "adjusting" tent poles)...

The list goes on for awhile...

Seriously, wow. That looks like a great kit.

I wrote about this somewhere on here, but I have only recently gotten back into BPing after working for about 10 years in office jobs doing nothing physical. So I'm fat (I weight 240 right now ) and I'm out of shape.

All my old gear had vanished during my years in office exile and so I recently went to good ol' Don at Ouachita Outdoor Outfitters and purchased a ton of stuff that I figured would give me a baseline to start from.

So, I'm just now starting the process you've probably been working at for quite a while now. I'll whittle some things here and there and upgrade to lighter gear over time, I'm sure, but I don't think I'll ever get my bag down to that kind of weight. Partly by choice, I suppose, but some of it is due to the fact that I'm a stocky guy. (even when I'm not fat and out of shape.) I have real broad shoulders and a thick chest, so I have to buy bigger stuff. Sleeping bags, pads, packs, clothes...etc...Almost all my gear is BIG, which makes it harder to cut the weight down.

Now's probably when you're going to reply and say "What do you mean? I'm a 320 lb. Norwegian Body Builder with tree trunk legs. If I can do it, why can't you?"

I'm always impressed with what you ul guys carry. I'll be bouncing things off of you to get advice on lightening my own load soon. But first I need to carry this giant bag of stuff into the woods and find out what works for me and what doesn't.

Jay:
The Marmot Atom that I have is a long. I am 6'0" and weigh around 230, but the Atom has plenty of room for me to toss and turn all night. I'm a side sleeper, so I turn alot at night. I've never had any trouble moving around in it. I bought mine on eBay, brand new w/tags, for 149.00. My ULA is a M/L size, the biggest in that style.The microfleece top is an XL size that I got at WalMart for around $12.00. I know what you are saying about gear needing to be big, but with a little work, you can find lightweight things to meet your needs. BTW, practicing with a tarp, just like with any gear, will help those who wish to go that route, pitch one so it will stand up to almost any weather conditions. The neat thing about a tarp is that I can keep all my gear under it with me, I can cook under it if necessary, get dressed under it, pack all my gear under it, and since it goes in an outside pocket of my pack, I can be completely ready to go, no matter what the weather and never get wet. It all comes down to practice. Try that in any tent!!!

You're right...It's just a matter of finding the right combination of things. I'll get there...

And as for the tarp thing; that's a great idea. I think I'll start packing one so I can set my tent up underneath it!

I do everything in my tent that you have explained, what I would like to know is how are you keeping the bugs off you without having to wear some type of repellent. Look I am not knocking your need for not having a tent. I have slept under a tarp for thirty days straight on an outward bound trip, and I will tell you that certain conditions make that route much more uncomfortable than a tent. It is not worth arguing it is a fact, a tent will keep you warmer, dryer and bug free more than a ground cloth and a tarp. Decades of testers from the best outdoor companies will tell you that is so.
Say it is a much more relaxing feeling to me knowing that if I am on the trail and a sudded storm rolls in with heavy rains I can stop right where I am, set up my tent in 2 minutes and be completely out of the elements. Rather than spend time searching for the right spot to set a tarp up so I can be fully protected. I have done a test with a group of hikers some ul some tent goers, set up in a emergency type scenario and the tent goers were set up and comfortably protected minutes before the ul guys. And these were not newly ul goers, these were hard core White Mountain dye hards that new what they were doing. Maybe down here in the tame wilderness of Arkansas it is much easier, but in the rugged mountains of Maine and New Hampshire it is a much different scenario. I will tell you from many years experience that where some places are ok for a tarp, there are many places you cannot get by with one. You are limited with one and that is a fact. Try being up on the Presidential range and try to find a good spot to set up camp with one. And if a storm rolls in you will just be another victim of Mount Washington valley.

Hey ulhiker on your list in the clothes area you didn't put any shorts or pants, or is the poncho what you wear to cover your junk. Do you have any pics of you weather proof tarp set up I am interested in seeing your system. Thanks
Snow

Snowsurfer:
Below are just a few of the different pitches that I and others have used in the past when using a tarp. Pictures 4 & 6 demonstrates the use of bug netting in warmer weather. The bug netting adds about 6 oz. to the overall weight. Pictures 1, 2, and 3 shows one of my versions of the pitch that I used the other weekend when we got between 2-3 inches of rain overnight, and I stayed dried. As far as looking for a place to set up the tarp, I need nothing more than what you would look for when pitching your tent; a place that is not in a drainage or in a low-lying area. I don't need trees, in fact, I usually use trekking poles to pitch my tarp. I am also willing to debate that in a storm, that a tarp could, in fact, provide more protection, because I can pitch it with an extremely low profile and let the wind pour over it, rather than having the sides of the tent catch the wind, possibly hampering the integrity of tent. As far as the tame wilderness of Arkansas, I have pitched a tarp several times above treeline in the San Juans of Colorado and experienced several storms where the wind exceeded 50 mph, with no loss of protection from my tarp. It boils down to one's experience in the wilderness and one's ability to use the tools that he brings with him.
As far as clothes in the gear list, this was not a skin-out list, this was what was carried in my pack. I wore a pair of convertible pants and a nylon long-sleeve shirt. I try to start off each day with a clean (or at least dry) pair of socks, so I carried an extra pair for this trip.
BTW, number 5 was taken in the Grand Canyon.
Jim
1.2.3.4.5.6.

Oh my. Looks like there's a battle brewing between the Ultralighters and the "Normal" guys! LOL..

I'm am fully impresed with the setups you use ul. They look sweet. My only complaint about tents (not my current one, it works great) is lack of air circulation. I've been so hot in a tent during the summertime, but the way that tarp is open at one end looks like it would be nice and airy. How about in the bitter cold though? Do you have any moisture build-up issues when you seal up your cocoon in the winter? Or do you seal it up?

I am still on the dark side on this one though. I have to side with Snow for the most part; I still like my tent. (But I don't like to carry it.)

Jay:
If you remember MLK holiday this year, it was very cold out. A friend of mine and I hiked sections 2 & 3 of the OHT that 3-day weekend. It got down to about 10 degrees at night and all we had was my tarp. I set it up with one side staked down to the ground and used four trekking poles for support, so we had a wind block on one side and a flat roof and plenty of room for us and the gear. The 2 of us were very comfortable and stayed dry, with no condensation. The great thing about tarps is the versatility of them. There are countless ways in which to pitch it. The difference in the pitch is determined by the weather. If its not going to be raining, then you can have a much more opened pitch, such as an A-frame, with the sides not staked down, but tied out for more ventilation. If its going to be raining or very windy, then you pitch it lower to the ground and limit the amount of open area. The pitches shown above are more for inclimate weather, with the exception of #5, which is set up more like the A-frame mentioned above.

I have to admit, that is the best damn tarp settup I have seen yet. Congrats to you man. I will have to say though above tree line if you had a swirling cross wind like I have seen, it would come right through that open end and bye bye tarp, by by protection. Good tents are made to capture and roll wind off from every angle, none of your tarp setups that you have shown can do that unless you had all for sides covered. And also above tree line with a swirling cross wind in the rain, please tell me how you stay dry with one end completley open. Unless you find a little ravine to shield that one end you can't get absolute protection. It is impossible. You got lucky in the San Juans you did not have a rain storm move in. Just admit it in certain situations you are limited with a tarp. By the time you add all the extras to it to make it completely weather proof, you might as well be carrying a tent.I was just joking about your junk hanging out and the clothes and shoes on your back count as packing weight as well as what is in your pack cause your still carrying them. I like your tarp set up it is genious, don't take my critizism to heart I just have been leading groups for so long and have seen so many go liters wish that they didn't go so lite in certain situations.

Continuing with Tarp 101, if you look at the above pictures, primarily #1, #2, and #3, I can drop that opened end down as far as the weather dictates. Even to the ground if necessary, so those pesky swirling winds would not be a problem. I will still be able to keep the ridge up using the trekking poles and guylines.
It is not my purpose here to convince anyone that they should leave their tent at home and grab a tarp and run off to some mountain top and take on a blizzard. I just want to show people that there options out there for the NORMAL weather and conditions that they will likely encounter.
Do I use a tent? Yes, primarily when my wife hikes with me. I take a Henry Shires Double Rainbow. (I'm sure things will be said about that). She would rather sleep in a tent, so I accomodate her with a great little lightweight 2-man tent.
But if I am going solo, then I take my tarp and have a great time.

Hey UL if you don't want critizism don't ask for it. in all honestly I was highly impressed with your design technique and told you so. I had a concern about the open end and asked, and you answered that to. That is the thing with you ULhikers you get so darned defensive. The truth of the matter also is, you can use a tearp design in extremely snowy conditions, if I can find the picture of my best friend on top Mt. Washington I will show you his set-up. He dug a 4by8 2ft. hole in the snow. Set his tarp up low profile similar to yours on top of it. Built a snow wall in the front opening and base camped there for 4 days while he trekked along the traverse. I have far more experience in tarp design and UL packing then you think I do, simply like to see how confident people are with there style of traveling in the outdoors, being a guide it is kind of second nature for me to question peoples experience. Your design and your trust in it is where it should be and with that I would be comfortable to hang out with you under your tarp anytime, no matter what the conditions. Peace to you .

snowsurfer1973 wrote:Your design and your trust in it is where it should be and with that I would be comfortable to hang out with you under your tarp anytime, no matter what the conditions. Peace to you .

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about! There's the love!

ul,

I was just adding up the ounces that make up your shelter and if I have it right it is about 2lbs7.38oz. Now that is good weight for a system like yours that has as much room as yours. I am just stating this for those people that don't feel comfortable with tarp systems and prefer tents but still want the ul weight. Montbell makes a tent that is 2lbs1oz trail weight for one person and Msr makes the Hubba HP that is 2lbs6oz that is good for four seasons for one person that is a bomb shelter. So you get the weight of a tarp set-up but get the personal comfort of being in a tent. You just don't get the space of ul's awesome layout. There are sacrifices you must make either way.

One other sacrifice you make which is a big one. PRICE, I am sure ul's shelter is a tenth of the price as these tents. UL tents generally come with big price tags like all UL items. It truly pays to go ultralight.

Snow:
I went back and added up the weight of my ground cloth, tarp, stakes, and tent cord and I come up with 24.0 oz. That makes it 1.50 lbs. I've got about $65.00 in this setup.
If my tarp setup weighed what you came up with, I'd just take my Tarptent Double Rainbow. It only weighs 2.5 lbs. I got it when Henry Shires had a year-end sale for $210.00. I only bought this for when my wife goes with me. He also makes a one-person tarptent that weighs 2.0 lbs and cost around $200.
UL

UL
I have the one person Contrail Tarptent and it weighs 1.89 lbs not 2lbs .
Oh my gosh I think UL has turned me into one of those gram wennies.... Stop it... LOL

Lew

Yeah there are many out there. Six Moon Designs has a tarptent that is only 13oz. I have read some bad reviews though about it in rainy weather. Most reviews were very positive though. I always trust the positive reviews, but sometimes if there is so maany positives you have to wonder who the people are that are giving the negative ones. They are probably not even setting them up correctly.

The SMD Wild Oasis is a great little shelter. However, this is where I would rather carry an extra 2.5 oz. and have much more versatility as far as pitch goes. Much like we talked about earlier in this thread. Having said that, I am looking at the Gossamer Gear "The One" as a possible shelter for my planned thru-hike of the John Muir Trail in August '09, if my wife decides not to go with me. It weighs 17.5 oz. and, from the reviews I've read, sounds like a great little shelter. Here's a link to it:
http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/The_One.html
Click on the video to see the setup.
UL

Hey ul
That is nice. I think I may be sold on the Gossemer. Easy setup and looks pretty solid. Thanks for the site link.

So, I'm just now starting the process you've probably been working at for quite a while now. I'll whittle some things here and there and upgrade to lighter gear over time, I'm sure, but I don't think I'll ever get my bag down to that kind of weight. Partly by choice, I suppose, but some of it is due to the fact that I'm a stocky guy. (even when I'm not fat and out of shape.) I have real broad shoulders and a thick chest, so I have to buy bigger stuff. Sleeping bags, pads, packs, clothes...etc...Almost all my gear is BIG, which makes it harder to cut the weight down.

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